Untangling Human Systems: Simon Copsey on Curiosity, Leadership, and Organizational Change
Curiosity | Systems Thinking | Human Connection

Introduction
What really gets in the way when teams or companies struggle people or systems? In this deep-dive episode, organizational transformation consultant Simon Copsey joins the Multiverse Leadership Podcast to examine how curiosity and systemic thinking can untangle workplace knots, foster trust, and ultimately make us better leaders, parents, and human beings.

From Code to Culture
Simon’s early life as a developer taught him the limits of individual effort when organizations become complex. He saw firsthand how good intentions can get buried in bureaucracy. Driven by curiosity, he transitioned from writing code to “fixing what’s behind the screen” systemic consulting, organizational coaching, and helping companies transform not just how they build software, but how they work together as humans.

People Are Good Systems Get Tangled
Simon learned to flip a foundational assumption: most people, despite appearances, want to do a good job. When things go awry, it’s less about motivation and more about the systems, incentives, and environmental factors at play. Managers and parents alike wrestle with this do you control, or do you clear the way? Simon’s journey leans hard into trust, questioning old beliefs, and systemic problem-solving.

The Roots of Behavior: Education and Family
Much of what we call “leadership” or “management” is inherited from school and home. Simon and Justin break down how children are taught compliance, not self-governance; how curiosity and asking “why” get stamped out early on by rote education and family control. The conversation explores how this carries into adulthood, shaping managers who micromanage and adults who struggle with independent thinking or emotional regulation.

Curiosity and Connection: The Only Way Forward
What does it mean to be a leader, a parent, or just a good citizen? For Simon, it’s about asking why, being “curious before furious,” and realizing that what looks irrational is usually rooted in unseen values or experiences. True connection, whether in teams or families, comes from listening and seeking to understand not just to be understood.

Human Complexity, Conflict, and Growth
From parenting stories to disagreements over workplace process, Simon and Justin show how most human conflict stems from unmet needs, programming, and history. They unpack the dangers of punishment/control cycles, generational trauma, and the need to embrace mistakes as learning opportunities. Change and healing, it turns out, is not about fixing others but shifting the systems and assumptions underneath.

Global Thinking and the Universal Human
Simon dreams of a world where curiosity, global citizenship, and compassion drive progress not compliance or narrow vision. He urges us to zoom out, appreciate diversity, and treat connection as the fuel for growth, innovation, and healing.

Key Takeaways

• People are good, but systems and outdated assumptions create problems

• Curiosity consistently asking “why?” is essential for learning and change

• Childhood lessons shape adult behavior; true leadership clears the way, not controls

• Connection, not compliance, is the heart of growth in families and workplaces

• Healing generational patterns starts with self-inquiry, compassion, and willingness to change